Holiness Conference Day 2 and 2 1/2

I apologize for not blogging a bit on Friday night about the conference.  The day went late and then I ended up having to fly home on Saturday afternoon and so I haven't had a chance until now to do some reflecting.

On Friday there were several panel sessions, Brian spoke in chapel, Alan Nelson (editor of REV! magazine) presented a nice session on giving ministry away to the laity, and Brian started his Everything Must Change "Tour" which began in the evening and ran through the day on Saturday.

In chapel Friday, Brian spoke about a "third way" of being Christian.  Brian argued that for most young people their options for faith have felt like (1) to serve the God (represented by the way religion was used by the colonizers) who wants to get us to heaven but doesn't really ask us to do anything about changing the world as it is.  Or (2) reject faith altogether and just give themselves over to life as it is. 

But there is another option.  The (3) third way is to decide to become a follower of the one who taught us to pray that the Father's kingdom would come and his will would be done on earth as it is in heaven.  This third way is not oriented toward getting to heaven (although eternal life is a bonus) as much as it is about becoming part of God's revolution for transformation and redemption that Christ called God's kingdom - although it is different in almost every way from the kingdoms of human history.

I'm sad that I only got to be part of the first session of the Everything Must Change presentation.  (Everything Must Change is the name of his new book).  There is no way for me to fairly describe the first "Change" session held Friday evening (for much of it had to do with reflection and contemplation in various ways) but the main idea was that there is a major shift that needs to take place if (1) the church is going to speak to the most pressing issues of our day and (2) if we are going to be part of the transformation that God wants to have happen in his creation.

Honestly, I found just the first session of "Change" extremely convicting and more than I can chew on as a pastor.  I'm not sure I'm ready - let alone the church I serve - to make a shift to what are certainly God's and the world's greatest priorities and concerns.

If you are interested in exploring some of what Brian was introducing, obviously you can read his new book, but you can also go to www.brianmclaren.net or www.deepshift.org.  I would be interested to know some of your thoughts.

BTW - I found Brian to be one of the kindest and gentlest persons I have met.  It is always pleasant to meet someone you have admired from afar and like them more after being with them.  And second, I'm fully aware that both Brian and the emerging church have critics in the Christian world, but I'm not going to get into an argument over Brian or the emerging church with anyone who has only read some of his/its critics without reading any of Brian's books or hearing him speak. 

Also BTW - the two harshest critics of Brian and the emerging church that I am aware of don't like the Church of the Nazarene nor the Wesleyan movement either because (1) we are not biblical inerrantists (2) we believe that grace is universal [not limited] (3) we believe that grace invites a response [not irresistible] (4) we think the Christian life is relational and thus a person can walk away from this relationship and (5) we believe that sanctification of life is God's desire for this life and (6) we ordain women for ministry.  I probably can think of about ten other things they don't like about us also, but that's enough to let me know that I'd like to hear what some other brothers and sisters in Christ have to say on the matter.

If you are interested in reading about the emerging church movement (which is really more of a renewal movement across many denominational lines than a new denomination itself) I recommend Emerging Churches: Creating Christian Community in Postmodern Cultures by two Fuller professors Eddie Gibbs and Ryan Bolger [Amazon link] http://www.amazon.com/Emerging-Churches-Christian-Community-Postmodern/dp/0801027152/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202694739&sr=8-1 or this Christianity Today article by Scot McKnight entitled "Five Streams of the Emerging Church" linked here http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/february/11.35.html.

Blessings - SD

Comments

[Richard Sears]

My knowledge of Brian McClaren and the emerging church movement is limited to the article in Christianity Today you link above, a little I have heard on the radio and one interview I read online from the Charlotte Observer (http://www.charlotte.com/449/story/463053.html). And I am aware some strongly disagree with him theologically, though I don't know the details. This comment is as much a thought on this morning's (2/10/08) sermon as the emerging church.

Specifically how do we love people who practice homosexuality so that they feel accepted in the church without affirming sin?

I have an Episcopal background and I am concerned with the approach of the Episcopal church which in a desire to love people who practice homosexuality winds up affirming homosexuality.

From the perspective of someone who finds identity in being homosexual, to believe homosexual behavior is a sin is to reject them.

So where are the lines? The old adage to "love the sinner and hate the sin" is a lot easier to say than it is to live, especially when the sin is part of a person's understanding of who they are.

I agree with and try to live as McClaren says does, to "treat gay people just like I treat every other kind of person. I don't have any discrimination toward gay people."

Although I don't know how to do this without avoiding my opinion that homosexual behavior is a sin.

In the Observer interview, McClaren says homosexuality is not one of the most significant moral issues, and that "the entire issue is badly framed and that the entire argument has become so combative and spoiled by a cultural wars mentality."

While I agree homosexuality is not the most significant moral issue, it is a moral issue. And while he may not like to deal with the "cultural wars mentality" there are those who strive to change our culture so homosexuality is considered normal and even good.

I remember seeing a newspaper article about the local Episcopal bishop at the gay pride parade. If to show we are not "homophobic" we participate in their movement to transform the culture, do we not negate a Christian influence on the culture.

What would Jesus do? I don't know.

I know he would love. Though I don't think he would just avoid the subject.

And how would he deal with the cultural issue? And what would he say about the church affirming homosexuality?

[Christa]

I'm glad you got to spend some time with Brian...we found him to be the same as you did when he was here...very soft spoken,kind and compassionate...he is the "real deal" no matter what his critics say. He was also very complimentary to us regarding the Nazarene church and our Holiness roots.

Thank you for pointing out that his critics are also critical of our Wesleyan heritage...I don't think many people realize that...I'm glad the conference went well...Christa

[Shawna R. B. Atteberry]

Hi Scott. I was a student of yours at SNU. I was in Systematic Theology 1 in the Fall of 96 (I graduated that December). Sarah Landowski in one of my online friends, and she sent me a link to your blog.

At SNU I was Shawna Bound. Since then I was an NIVS in Barcelona, went to NTS, worked for both NPH and HQ and was on staff at different churches. I am now married, living in Chicago, writing, and planting a church. How's that for condensing 12 years into two sentences? :)

Thank you for pointing out that the same people who criticize the emergent movement also have problems with those of us who are Wesleyan/Holiness.

I went to Brian's conference a few years ago when he was MNU. He was one of the most humble men I've ever met.

[Scott Daniels]

Shawna,
Thanks for making contact. I remember you from 96. It's nice to hear what great things God has been doing in your life. Thanks for your encouragement.
Scott

[Scott Daniels]

Richard,
Thanks for your very thoughtful response. When I said yesterday that I really need people to pray with me about how to wrestle with some of these issues as a pastor I really meant it.
I have a lot that I want to say in response, but it will really turn out to be long so I'll probably try and blog about it later.
Blessings - Scott

[Mermade]

Hi Pastor Scott -- I am glad that you and Shawna finally made contact. She is one of my favorite bloggers, and I was so excited to hear that you guys knew each other. (I am not sure if you remember me, but I came up to you after church a couple Sundays ago to tell you about her blog.) :-)

I was intrigued by your message last Sunday, and wrote about it over at my blog today. Richard Sears asks a question that has been on my mind for awhile now. I attempted to discuss it over at my blog today, but I still am not sure how I feel about it.

-Sarah

[Richard Sears]

Scott,

I will be praying. I look forward to hearing your thoughts. The church should be a place where all people can experience the grace of God and learn to live holy lives. Too often Christians' prejudice, pride and fear hide the Kingdom from those who are seeking. (Not to mention all of our other personality quirks.)

- Richard

[ShaneBertou]

Several of us from around the blogsphere are reading "Everything Must Change" together and discussing our thoughts. We've just begun, but we've set it up in a way where it's never to late to participate.

If you have any interest, you can visit us at:

http://readingforchange.wordpress.com